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	<title>Comments on: Social Justice Through Health Care</title>
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		<title>By: anon in idaho</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>anon in idaho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-122</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care *why* they come here. You can come here LEGALLY or stay OUT. Illegals don&#039;t deserve protection from anything. Legal immigrants do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t care *why* they come here. You can come here LEGALLY or stay OUT. Illegals don&#039;t deserve protection from anything. Legal immigrants do.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Smith</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Well done. At least you&#039;ve researched it. Many of the items you list are the reasons I do support Obama - so we&#039;ll agree to differ.

However, I will question your assumptions in point 11 and 12.


There&#039;s so much info here on this link - you&#039;ll have a field day - but it&#039;s quite interesting ( for example it has the national debt and inflation recorded year by year by President since 1780 ish on the spreadsheet at the bottom under sources - you need to select the worksheet).

You&#039;ll figure it out - but look at Fig 1 which shows the climb in National Debt. And look at Fig 3 together with the narrative underneath which shows the &quot;change&quot; by President for the last 50 years.

You will see that Democrat policies have been more successful (Clinton, Carter and Johnson) and that tax decreases have not had the anticipated effect.
http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

.EDIT: Point 13  - The minimum wage is arguable. First should there be a minm wage? And then what level is it set.
It&#039;s a matter of judgement. I have a view that says it should be set in areas wider than one state.

Generally - I have to say it&#039;s difficult to compare the pre war period with the post war period  -  because so much has changed. The lessons are different - the balance is different.

I&#039;ll come back and give you a counter argument for Point 12 shortly. I have to attend to something briefly.

OK POINT 12 - I say increasing tax on rich does not affect jobs. The higher the income the more their money is spent outside their domicile country - holidays, overseas property. Taxation takes the money into &quot;federal&quot; control. That is then spent within the US - on infrastructure, on defence - or even as lower tax for low earners who spend on local goods and services. So taxing the rich helps the economy more than not taxing them.
A counter argument to this is that the rich move out - but thats a matter of balance again when compared to other countries. But bear in m ind - most choose to remain in the US  and enjoy the benefits it offers . Lower tax countries are low for a reason  - they don&#039;t offer the same environment or other benefits. 

EDIT: Just read your updates. Regarding business tax. Businesses are in the the US because thats where their market is. It&#039; not just about tax rates. Businesses also consider the benefits of a legislative framework - what redress they have on unpaid debts for example. One of the central planks of Obamas policy is to tax the many US companies who continiue to do business in the US but have chosen to register their business outside US to avoid paying US taxes. For example, over 12000 US companies are now registered in the Cayman Islands yet 99% of their market is in US. They are simply re-registering their office, tax advisors told them to. They still do the same business in the US -but pay their tax to Cayman Is not US. Obama is going to close that loophole. The money will be taxed from where it is earned - not where it is accounted. All these companies are doing is aviding the tax they should legally pay. That puts them back on equal status with their competitors - often smaller companies - who have been unfairly put at a disadvantage. It doesn&#039;t mean jobs are lost. It actually encourages more investment - because only profits are  taxed. If they re-invest - they avoid tax. .

I&#039;ve got to go out soon. I&#039;ll check this page later.

EDIT: Yes - a &quot;paper office &quot; as you call it. Thats whats been happening. You can keep lowering taxes - but if they find a country with a lower tax - they move - or re-register. They can hop from the Bahamas to somehwere else for a 1% difference. Obama plans to change the tax point. If they&#039;ve done the business in the US they&#039;ll pay US taxes. They can keep their paper office - but there will be no point. It&#039;s been done in Europe where they had the same problem. Some of the finace companies still amnage to get round it - because they can &quot;earn&quot; moeny in the paper office. But manufacturing industries, service industries, distributive industries, retail businesses will no longer be able to avoid paying their legal tax contribution.

BTW I also have been in business, corporate and private for 33 years  -  and points 29 and 30 we could never agree. 
Must go. Thanks..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done. At least you&#039;ve researched it. Many of the items you list are the reasons I do support Obama &#8211; so we&#039;ll agree to differ.</p>
<p>However, I will question your assumptions in point 11 and 12.</p>
<p>There&#039;s so much info here on this link &#8211; you&#039;ll have a field day &#8211; but it&#039;s quite interesting ( for example it has the national debt and inflation recorded year by year by President since 1780 ish on the spreadsheet at the bottom under sources &#8211; you need to select the worksheet).</p>
<p>You&#039;ll figure it out &#8211; but look at Fig 1 which shows the climb in National Debt. And look at Fig 3 together with the narrative underneath which shows the &quot;change&quot; by President for the last 50 years.</p>
<p>You will see that Democrat policies have been more successful (Clinton, Carter and Johnson) and that tax decreases have not had the anticipated effect.<br />
<a href="http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm</a></p>
<p>.EDIT: Point 13  &#8211; The minimum wage is arguable. First should there be a minm wage? And then what level is it set.<br />
It&#039;s a matter of judgement. I have a view that says it should be set in areas wider than one state.</p>
<p>Generally &#8211; I have to say it&#039;s difficult to compare the pre war period with the post war period  &#8211;  because so much has changed. The lessons are different &#8211; the balance is different.</p>
<p>I&#039;ll come back and give you a counter argument for Point 12 shortly. I have to attend to something briefly.</p>
<p>OK POINT 12 &#8211; I say increasing tax on rich does not affect jobs. The higher the income the more their money is spent outside their domicile country &#8211; holidays, overseas property. Taxation takes the money into &quot;federal&quot; control. That is then spent within the US &#8211; on infrastructure, on defence &#8211; or even as lower tax for low earners who spend on local goods and services. So taxing the rich helps the economy more than not taxing them.<br />
A counter argument to this is that the rich move out &#8211; but thats a matter of balance again when compared to other countries. But bear in m ind &#8211; most choose to remain in the US  and enjoy the benefits it offers . Lower tax countries are low for a reason  &#8211; they don&#039;t offer the same environment or other benefits. </p>
<p>EDIT: Just read your updates. Regarding business tax. Businesses are in the the US because thats where their market is. It&#039; not just about tax rates. Businesses also consider the benefits of a legislative framework &#8211; what redress they have on unpaid debts for example. One of the central planks of Obamas policy is to tax the many US companies who continiue to do business in the US but have chosen to register their business outside US to avoid paying US taxes. For example, over 12000 US companies are now registered in the Cayman Islands yet 99% of their market is in US. They are simply re-registering their office, tax advisors told them to. They still do the same business in the US -but pay their tax to Cayman Is not US. Obama is going to close that loophole. The money will be taxed from where it is earned &#8211; not where it is accounted. All these companies are doing is aviding the tax they should legally pay. That puts them back on equal status with their competitors &#8211; often smaller companies &#8211; who have been unfairly put at a disadvantage. It doesn&#039;t mean jobs are lost. It actually encourages more investment &#8211; because only profits are  taxed. If they re-invest &#8211; they avoid tax. .</p>
<p>I&#039;ve got to go out soon. I&#039;ll check this page later.</p>
<p>EDIT: Yes &#8211; a &quot;paper office &quot; as you call it. Thats whats been happening. You can keep lowering taxes &#8211; but if they find a country with a lower tax &#8211; they move &#8211; or re-register. They can hop from the Bahamas to somehwere else for a 1% difference. Obama plans to change the tax point. If they&#039;ve done the business in the US they&#039;ll pay US taxes. They can keep their paper office &#8211; but there will be no point. It&#039;s been done in Europe where they had the same problem. Some of the finace companies still amnage to get round it &#8211; because they can &quot;earn&quot; moeny in the paper office. But manufacturing industries, service industries, distributive industries, retail businesses will no longer be able to avoid paying their legal tax contribution.</p>
<p>BTW I also have been in business, corporate and private for 33 years  &#8211;  and points 29 and 30 we could never agree.<br />
Must go. Thanks..</p>
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		<title>By: DreadLaw2</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>DreadLaw2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-85</guid>
		<description>No he doesn&#039;t! He has specifically used words stating he does not believe in isolationism, he believes, like your founding fathers in non-interventionism. If not attacking everyone is isolationism, then bring on isolationism!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No he doesn&#8217;t! He has specifically used words stating he does not believe in isolationism, he believes, like your founding fathers in non-interventionism. If not attacking everyone is isolationism, then bring on isolationism!</p>
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		<title>By: vanitycult</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>vanitycult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 06:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-84</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure it&#039;s been mentioned before, but isn&#039;t it interesting that he&#039;s being interviewed by Kaiser?? hmmmmmmmm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s been mentioned before, but isn&#8217;t it interesting that he&#8217;s being interviewed by Kaiser?? hmmmmmmmm</p>
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		<title>By: RoseyNightingale</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>RoseyNightingale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul is falling behind on the &quot;Times&quot; 100 most influential people list. Rate him &quot; 100&quot; and lets get him to number one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul is falling behind on the &#8220;Times&#8221; 100 most influential people list. Rate him &#8221; 100&#8243; and lets get him to number one!</p>
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		<title>By: GREAT_AMERICAN</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>GREAT_AMERICAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Have you ever heard of the terms short and concise? And to the point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever heard of the terms short and concise? And to the point?</p>
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		<title>By: GREAT_AMERICAN</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>GREAT_AMERICAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-123</guid>
		<description>First of all you shoud be called a great BIG conservative.  To be an American you should have respect for the Constitution and what it stands for.  The current admin does not even recognize to Constitution.  Mr. Bush considers it &quot;A god damn piece of paper&quot; Cheney cannot even remember that the military oath is to defend the Constitution. (His memory failed during a prepared speech to West Point graduates)
At the end of your dissertation you requote Mr Bush as stating he he stands firm for non-negotiable demands of human dignity.
So far during his watch:
Rescue workers at ground zero were lied to regarding their health.
Habeus Corpis was revoked after 200 years
Torture was instituted (including children)
Americans have had their phone conversations eaves dropped upon.
The public has been lied to regarding war.
Thousand of American soldiers have died
Hundred of thousands of Iraqi citizens have been murdered.
The deficit is at 3 Trillion dollars and the American dollar may collapse because of the debt.
Gas prices have risen dramatically and that is not due to the price of oil.  The refineries are not working at capacitiy and the oil companies ( this admin. is a part of) have raked in record profits.
The middle class has eroded.  Americans are now putting living expenses on their credit card.
The government has not been held accoutable to the people.
Women are certainly not respected when the ban on late-term abortions did not include emergencies concerning the life of the mother.
Religion is only tolerated if you believe in the approved God.
Property Rights are not respected when you consider &quot;eminant domain&quot;
Freedom of speech is only &quot;free&quot; when you agree with the policies of the admin.  (or if your FOX noise)
There is NO equal justice since this current regime has taken power and eroded our civil rights.  The same rights that we are supposedly defending with the war on terror.
The USA has not signed the Kyoto accords.
The USA has NEVER signed any UN resolutions regarding human rights.
The USA does not belong to the International Court so none of our leaders can be tried for human rights violations or crimes against humanity.
Stop listening to the propaganda and do some independent research before you regurgitate the &quot;official line&quot;.
This president may think he has principles but he certainly does not abide by them.  The sheep that are following are fellow Republicans (congress) and certainly NOT liberals!!!
So whose idea of &quot;right&quot; are you speaking of?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all you shoud be called a great BIG conservative.  To be an American you should have respect for the Constitution and what it stands for.  The current admin does not even recognize to Constitution.  Mr. Bush considers it &quot;A god damn piece of paper&quot; Cheney cannot even remember that the military oath is to defend the Constitution. (His memory failed during a prepared speech to West Point graduates)<br />
At the end of your dissertation you requote Mr Bush as stating he he stands firm for non-negotiable demands of human dignity.<br />
So far during his watch:<br />
Rescue workers at ground zero were lied to regarding their health.<br />
Habeus Corpis was revoked after 200 years<br />
Torture was instituted (including children)<br />
Americans have had their phone conversations eaves dropped upon.<br />
The public has been lied to regarding war.<br />
Thousand of American soldiers have died<br />
Hundred of thousands of Iraqi citizens have been murdered.<br />
The deficit is at 3 Trillion dollars and the American dollar may collapse because of the debt.<br />
Gas prices have risen dramatically and that is not due to the price of oil.  The refineries are not working at capacitiy and the oil companies ( this admin. is a part of) have raked in record profits.<br />
The middle class has eroded.  Americans are now putting living expenses on their credit card.<br />
The government has not been held accoutable to the people.<br />
Women are certainly not respected when the ban on late-term abortions did not include emergencies concerning the life of the mother.<br />
Religion is only tolerated if you believe in the approved God.<br />
Property Rights are not respected when you consider &quot;eminant domain&quot;<br />
Freedom of speech is only &quot;free&quot; when you agree with the policies of the admin.  (or if your FOX noise)<br />
There is NO equal justice since this current regime has taken power and eroded our civil rights.  The same rights that we are supposedly defending with the war on terror.<br />
The USA has not signed the Kyoto accords.<br />
The USA has NEVER signed any UN resolutions regarding human rights.<br />
The USA does not belong to the International Court so none of our leaders can be tried for human rights violations or crimes against humanity.<br />
Stop listening to the propaganda and do some independent research before you regurgitate the &quot;official line&quot;.<br />
This president may think he has principles but he certainly does not abide by them.  The sheep that are following are fellow Republicans (congress) and certainly NOT liberals!!!<br />
So whose idea of &quot;right&quot; are you speaking of?</p>
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		<title>By: jacedarkside</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>jacedarkside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-78</guid>
		<description>RON PAUL&#039;S GOT IT ALL!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RON PAUL&#8217;S GOT IT ALL!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: HotStew</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>HotStew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-87</guid>
		<description>I repeat, your health is not some cellphone.
There must be quality control and people must have some kind of security from medical bills.
Ron Paul tries to make health care profitable and forgets its purpose.
Every human should have access to medical facilities affordable with their pocket size. There is no space gamble around here. Act now or drown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I repeat, your health is not some cellphone.<br />
There must be quality control and people must have some kind of security from medical bills.<br />
Ron Paul tries to make health care profitable and forgets its purpose.<br />
Every human should have access to medical facilities affordable with their pocket size. There is no space gamble around here. Act now or drown.</p>
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		<title>By: HotStew</title>
		<link>http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy/comment-page-1#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>HotStew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://srime.com/social-justice-through-health-care.healthy-and-freshy#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Sure, free market just works on its own. That&#039;s why 90% of all desktops run Windows. Don&#039;t we have enough religions already? Ron Paul acts if the free market is his and doesn&#039;t deem it necessary to give us proper proof that it&#039;s truly a better alternative.
Socialist this, socialist that, anti-communist FUD really worked on you guys in the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, free market just works on its own. That&#8217;s why 90% of all desktops run Windows. Don&#8217;t we have enough religions already? Ron Paul acts if the free market is his and doesn&#8217;t deem it necessary to give us proper proof that it&#8217;s truly a better alternative.<br />
Socialist this, socialist that, anti-communist FUD really worked on you guys in the US.</p>
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